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using another language while playing. Yes? or No?

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:12 am
by sandbar
:? I had a game with three Dutch players I think they were, nothing wrong with that, I like to play with other countries, :D but they spoke Dutch the whole game, I think I had maybe one sentence I asked in English which they did answer, but kept talking among themselves the rest of the game. I kinda think it was a little rude apart from the fact I didn't know what they were talking about. It could have been "let's kill the cat" for all I knew. :P :P "Or, you pass me the queen, or I'll thump you" Apart from the language, I didn't have any problems with them, they seemed nice enough peeps, but I didn't stay around for a second game, and hey, don't get me wrong, I admire people who have a second language. I only speak two.... English and Aussie :lol: Anyone else had this happen?


Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:34 am
by PurplePeril
It's possible that these players' English was not good, hence the reason why they typed in Dutch, although I think this might be unlikely as most Dutch people are bilingual in Dutch and English.

I'm kinda on the fence on this one.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:45 am
by sandbar
:? You could be right there, but the few words in english that were typed back were ok. the only thing I thought might have been nice, is, if they weren't able to speak English, that the one that could, should just let the odd player ( rude comments here) player know. Do you think?
It wouldn't have stopped me playing with them. :D

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:19 am
by PurplePeril
I agree with you, sandbar, if the player was able to. For example, I know a little "emergency" French and a few words of Dutch but not enough to be able to carry on a conversation or indeed enough to be able to explain that I can only converse fluently in English.

Does that makes sense? :? lol

Bottom line is that if the player was able to explain to you the reason for typing all in Dutch, it would have been polite to do so. So, yes, rude to carry on a conversation that you didn't understand without explanation but not rude if they weren't able to explain.

Still sitting on the fence on this one :wink:

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:15 am
by sandbar
:lol: I have just replayed the game, and two of the players spoke English, and, no, they didn't gang up on me :wink: The third player did type out "sorry" when she had lead spades. :D Maybe we could have a sub-text 8) Just kidding :lol:

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:59 am
by Intellimouse
Here's 1 way to keep em honest, Sandyl It aint always word for word if they are using a lot of slang but it's close.


Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:24 am
by Unicron
Speaking a foreign language in a game where ALL of the players have not agreed it is ok prior is not ok and is a reportable offense.


Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:32 am
by Just_Ice
That's a good policy, Jason. I agree. It has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with fairness. If living in America has taught us anything, it's that sometimes we have to give up a freedom to preserve equality.

*Shakes the fence that PurplePeril is sitting on*

You coming down from there yet?


Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:46 am
by PurplePeril
Okay, playing devil's advocate now ... what if a player isn't capable of typing in English (and there are some I know of whose English is extremely limited and not able to carry on a conversation). Would these people not be welcome at HW?

<<<<< feels the fence wobbling and gets worried :wink:

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:47 am
by Primal Instincts
That's why there is an International room I suppose... 8)

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:55 am
by Just_Ice
Not at all. I think the principle is that you let everyone know before hand. If you can't speak the language others will, then at least you have the option to join or leave BEFORE the game starts. It's not saying you CAN'T play in a game where you speak different languages. Just gives everyone the option before it starts.

I see it as common courtesy.


Also, it's quite different if someone CAN'T speak the same language as another, or if they DON'T speak the same language as another. If two people come to the table speaking English then switch to a foreign language after the game begins, there appears to be an attempt at deception. If I played 2 people that only spoke Spanish I would hold chat to a minimum, out of courtesy.

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:58 am
by grandmaS
International room is never used. Try to get a game in there, unless you want to play with bots forget it lol

However, I know lots who can't speak much english either, so they don't talk in games. In the lobby they can speak in whatever language they are comfortable with but in the games it has to be either agreed on (as in : my friend doesn't speak english so we are going to be talking itn Dutch in this game, you are welcome to stay and play if you like :)

I have played in games where everyone but me spoke Dutch, I was fine with it but they did tell me first. :)

Hugs and Smiles

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:06 am
by Primal Instincts
Ya I think that's what Jason said....It has to be AGREED by all player's or it's a reportable offense.... 8)

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:33 am
I have to ask a few questions before i can sway from my opinion on this issue.....

Is there something in the rules about people having to speak English?

Is there something prior to purchase of the game to international potential members that this is a predominately English site, where foreign language use is discouraged?

Other than the site's HTML <body> being typed in english.. which some people wont know that because of computer translations and HTML help softwares that can be purchased that displays pages in the language in which one speaks, is there any mention of language preferences in the advertisement of the game??

Does the game have NONenglish language settings for foreigners??

Pending the answers to above questions, this is my general opinion (not to or about sandbar's post.. just the general TOPIC of foreign language use at HW)...

I dont think it is fair (UNLESS clearly stated in rules and ADVERTISEMENT of said software) to allow foreigners to purchase software and internet play and then discourage their use of their born-language. That is like saying.. You're welcome to play here, we want your money.. But you are not welcome to speak unless it is english??

It is bad enough we are divided in so many ways.. race, religion, sexual orientation, gender etc..

Must we be divided in yet another way.....language? Is 2 or 3 people speaking in a foreign language any different than 2 or 3 people speaking about topics very unfamiliar to that individual.. Whether in English or Russian.. I know nothing about Fly-fishing (fish are friends NOT food!! lol).. Arent I left out of the conversation anyway??

But I guess in my opinion I think this is a two-edged sword.. And pending the answers to the questions above, which could totally change my opinion i have now for how it should be at HW (lol).. I have seen profiles of MANY members living in foreign countries, If nothing was listed in the advertisment or information PRIOR to my purchase and i spoke ONLY a foreign language (and a few words of english to get by with a purchase) I would think it descrimination to take my money KNOWING my address/country from my credit card info.. and then discourage me from using my language.. and worse to punish me for it.

Personally.. When i run across speakers of foreign language (and because i speak a few) I either jump in where i know the language.. Use a nifty translator where i dont.. or mind my own business as they do when i am speaking MY native tongue and they dont know what I am saying. (this is the two-edged sword i spoke of) I never think 1st.. That i am being cheated, It REALLY ...NO IT REALLY REALLY bothers me that when foreigners speak in their native language the worst is thought of, of them (1st). (ie.. "they must be cheaters")

If one thinks they were taken advantage of, use replay, use babelfish translators and turn them in! As all cheaters are handled. I just dont see the crime in foreign language speaking.

I may be the only one with this feeling on foreign language use in HW. and that's ok LOL I will be the oddball..I am 100% American but have lived in foreign countries, I also live in Texas where Every business I call here in Texas has both English and Spanish automated services.. I am used to having to either adapt to foreign languages, share space with foreigners (or be one), or have patience and teach myself to not feel left out when i cannot understand.

Anyway.. i would really like some clarification to what goes on (information) prior to a foreigner purchasing the HW software/interent use. I would also like info regarding rules about languages spoken and if this was listed prior to purchase. Also.. Is HW advertised as an English/American Software with NO other translations available in its preferences and options? Im willing to rethink my opinion pending the answers =o)

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:58 am
by Primal Instincts
I think the issue would be over table talking etc.....I dont think a game is the place to have a long drawn out conversation.....the concern would be over not being able to tell if table talking was occuring or not....

14. You will not participate in Table Talking. (That is discussing your cards with a partner at the table, Privately communicating with your partner your hand, or telling how to play or defend a hand via any Instant Messenger Software, or by telephone as this is considered cheating. Please keep all specific card based comments to yourself until the hand/game is complete